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Last Post:
Nov 13, 2009 7:42 AM
by: manxcatmom
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"Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 23, 2009 5:23 PM
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A brief synopsis from bbca:
A heat wave hits and Prince John blocks all the local wells, forcing the outlaws to take desperate measures to save those at risk. Isabella suggests a new life, and Robin has to make a difficult choice.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 23, 2009 5:29 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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Thanks, Maryrose! We'll all enjoy discussing this one!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 23, 2009 10:55 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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Well, according to the previews I saw, it looks like Robin goes along for a bit (thinking of the scene of him kissing her again), but apparently later she turns on him (the scene of RH, Izzy, and Guy in the forest with swords at each other - & RH saying "You betrayed me ! !" towards Izzy.
And from what I read of the posts before I got on, he goes back to remembering Marian.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 24, 2009 12:09 AM
in response to: gailmaria51
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Lots of interesting twists and turns in this one, for all of the characters!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 24, 2009 7:21 AM
in response to: ladykate63
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Especially Isabella, she's impossible to keep up with at times--never quite know who's side she's on.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 24, 2009 1:18 PM
in response to: gailmaria51
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It is BECAUSE Robin remembers Marian, and all that she meant to him,
that he makes this choice even though (as we know)it will cost him DEARLY later on.
(But, its this all important choice that will end up putting him in Marian's arms forever.
Wonderful choice!)
Pokeygirl
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 24, 2009 9:01 PM
in response to: pokeygirl
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 Yay! its time!!!
~Shell
i love the baby(Robin):) Thats so sweet.
oh poor Guy. He cant get a break. Nows hes gotta watch his sister 'betray' him.
Go Robin. "should of shown some of that compassion to Marian before you ran her through" and my favorite "youre a rubbish kisser anyways. just do it" 
How did they tie up Guy? I didnt see Robin grab any rope before he left. 
You just want to forget about Marian???!!!!????? I know it hurts but lord, just forget her?? thats what happens after you bury her ring. 
And Kate gets captured again. Good job Kate.
Awww Poor Much. telling that woman how he woulda rescued Kate. hes so in love with Kate, and she doenst even know it. poor o Much
Isabella's dream sounded nice.(If she was Marian) And you could tell Robin relly wished it could be true.
The fight at the end was really good. it was sort of every man for themself. And noe Guy's gotta be on the run. At least he actually stood up for himself. Im just glad Robin aint gonna be smooching on Isabella anymore. Ive seen enough of that to last me a lifetime! Looks like its probably gonna be Kate now instead.
The look Robin gave that young couple at the end, it was so heartbreaking! All in all one of my very favorite episodes!
Message was edited by: robin-redneck21
Message was edited by: robin-redneck21
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 24, 2009 10:24 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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I think Guy set a world record there for shortest tenure as Sheriff. How long did he have the job? About 15 minutes?
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 4:50 AM
in response to: ladykate63
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15 minutes of fame, they say. At least he seemed to enjoy it, albeit a lilttle uncomfortably. . .
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 12:17 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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Light hearted notes:
I think this the episode where we get to the crux of Kate, she starts out the episode actually being useful... then she gets captured again. *Face Palm*
Tuck is Robin's reality check: "You think she just likes you for being you? (Why? You're not so great.)"
Guy wet the bed until he was 12!!!! Talk about impotent rage and mommy issues.
That rubbish kisser line was a low blow. I love it.
More Guy fan-service, two in eps in a row people, but I have a spoilerish feeling this isn't the last time he'll be 'all tied' up this season.
Is this just me being ignorant to the ways of groundwater or can't they just reblock the stream before it fills the entire chamber?
Kate's friend from the village (missed her name-sorry) no doubt knows how Allan holds babies (S1 Ep4), I wouldn't let him hold mine either.
Isabella "I'm not her." No you are not, thank you very much writers.
This is so awkward in the end, everyone's fighting everyone.
Kate's little 'thanks for not leaving me behind' kiss was actually really cute. Played on her youthful innocence.
Robin: "Let's just say Isabella is one twisted sister."
This was an epic episode.
Serious notes:
Guy is so interesting in this episode. His face watching Robin and Izzy is so full of mixed emotions. You can see his sense of betrayal, anger, and this underlying wretchedness as if it proves everything he's ever thought about why he can't trust anyone or let anyone in. Also the thought that Marian chose Robin and now he is fawning all over another woman? And that it is another woman he sees as at least somewhat "his". Layers and layers.
The showdown in the forest was such a tense moment. It's the first time in quite a while Robin's uttered Marian's name. That thing bubbling underneath finally surfaces, they finally talk about it, even if it's only brief. Izzy's expression said to me, "What have I stumbled into the middle of?" She's had no idea of the bad blood between these men.
After the fight Robin could let her kill Guy, he could see the thing he's been wanting for so long completed, he wouldn't even have to do it. But he can't let her. He tells her to give more forgiveness to those who have wronged us the most. Is he telling himself that? (foreshadowing?) Has he unconsiously recognized how similar he and Guy are or has he found any of those qualities Marian saw in him?
And in the end, Guy can't actually kill Robin and Izzy, he leaves them to die (he assumes) out of his sight. I think even Guy is bitterly aware of how close he was to being the hero, to being Marian's hero. Even what they say to each other in the end. (not quoted exactly)
Robin:"You're a dead man Gisbourne"
Guy:"It never seemed to do you any harm"
They are like the circles in a ven diagram, their centers are deeply linked, but they move out in different directions.
"It is easier to forgive an enemy than to forgive a friend."- William Blake
Think of that in context to all the relationships and their dynamics in the episodes to come. It keeps coming to mind for me.
Message was edited by: lexiconia2
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 1:00 AM
in response to: lexiconia2
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You know, I have to wonder if deep down Guy knew that Robin and Izzy were going to get out. Or at least had a good chance of getting out. I mean, he knows Robs is an escape artist (who got out of that escape-proof dungeon in 3 x 02, for instance, despite being chained up). Moreover, Robin actually says to him, "If I get out of here alive, I swear..." etc. And he didn't even seem all that shocked to see that they'd escaped. Really, his fall from power was total self-destruction. More on this later.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 4:21 AM
in response to: lexiconia2
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Yes...a very interesting episode.....so much going on, especially with Guy and Isabella.
A couple of things jumped out at me this time around:
Isabella is truly a cat...she has managed to survive all these years by using her feminine wiles and her wits.......She reminds me of Marian in the fact that- even when seemingly caught in a compromising situation...she can turn it around in an instant and come up with a plausible reason for what she is doing. (I'm not sure if it's a testament to her intelligence or the lack of intelligence of all the men around her!!). Of course, Isabella is doing it purely for her own self preservation, while Marian was always thinking of the greater good.
In the forest when the three of them come to their standoff and Guy tells Isabella that he will give her a second chance if she kills Robin........it reminded me of one of my favorite scenes of the entire series....the bedroom scene in S1 when Guy coerces Marian into saying she would marry him. Like that scene, Guy tells Isabella that he will lie to PJ about her betrayal and thereby save her life if she will do something that she really thinks is the last thing in the world she wants to do. She must agree to do the unthinkable. And again, Robin is there looking on (altho not out of sight as he was outside the bedroom). Isabella is standing there with her mind racing to figure a way out of her predicament...just as Marian was doing as she desperately tried to avoid saying yes to Guy.
When Isabella is standing over the inconscious Guy about to stab him...she says that what she really wanted was to hear his plea for forgiveness and to hear him admit to responsibility for causing her so much pain........I couldn't help thinking if Robin was thinking the same thing.......what might have happened if Guy would have been able to beg him for forgiveness.
Yay, Alan...so good to see him again fooling the guards...playing a part....being cheeky. I miss that.....we have seen so little of Alan this season. And what did he say after overpowering the guards.......something like "not asking for ice and a slice" in regards to asking for water. That couldn't be it, but it sure sounded like it.
PJ to Guy......'you're fired"...at least the Donald doesn't have the ones he fires pulling out a giant sword and trying to run him through!!!!
Interesting re Robin supposedly dying: Guy says "The Legend dies here", and PJ says to Guy..."it's not every day you can celebrate killing a national treasure". Gee.........Robin's status has suddenly been elevated among the power elite....he was always just described as a rotten outlaw...now a national treasure and a legend........PJ and Guy must have been watching Rh promos at "movie night" at the Castle !!!!!!!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 4:45 AM
in response to: lexiconia2
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So true lexiconia, layers and layers and layers! And it was good indeed to hear the name Marian again and get an actual bearing on where Robin stands with that.
I loved this one! They keep getting better and better. Until the bitter end. . .
Ah, more of natures revealed:
Robin: Trying to forget Marian yet every reminder of what could have been brings it all to the surface - children, a family a mate - and his pain. The irony of Isabella's dream. "It sounds sort of perfect," but, of course, we know he's not thinking of Isabella. And his fear of the futility of it all with his comment to Tuck.
Isabella: The depth of her hatred for her brother , "Someday you will pay," and the primacy of her survival instinct, "I have no interest in being on the losing side." Her talent for manipulation is staggering and we see foreshadowing of her personal enactment of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."
Guy: Pulled and twisted. His desire for power is still overriding, yet as pointed out, he can't quite kill them. He must to gain his lifelong reward, Sheriff of Nottingham, yet, for whatever reason - guilt, loyalty to blood, unwilling respect for RH, or just because he's not quite that much of a scumbag - doesn't do it. Passive execution, death through Issie and Robin's eventual weakness or, as LadyKate suggests, escape if they're brave and clever enough.
Kate: She's in Camp Robin big-time. I'm liking her so much better as she's turned out to be quite the bright one, the warrior, matching Robin's daring-do at every turn. Her spirit is so like Robin's - too alike for lasting romantic involvement (though her attraction to him is natural and I wish they wouldn't go there) but they're great as compatriots. I think they understand each other perfectly.
Other observations:
As lexi said, "They are like the circles in a ven diagram, their centers are deeply linked." Yes, Guy can't kill Robin and Robin can't kill, -or allow to be killed - Guy. Layers!
Loved the humor: Guy wetting the bed, the baby naming story - "A robin landed on him when he was born," "...dry as a camel's bum in a sand storm."
Wow, can Alan talk his way through anything! Sure wish we had been given more of him. I'll have to go back and watch the S2 episodes with him, Guy and the Sheriff.
I love watching Isabella's face. You can see the lies in her words. Of course all of the men miss it.
Thought the camera work was interesting in the dungeon scene during Robin's refusal of Isabella - Kate blurred face between them in the distance. But then they kept blurring it. . .
Great chemistry between Isabella and Robin. (Almost as good as Marian and Guy's, but not.) Yes, I have to forget about the fact that he shouldn't be going there, but then he doesn't, bless his heart. This is a very good Robin episode, all you Robin fans. Even from the Team Leather camp, I was truly taken with his charm in this one. And his pain.
Ok, did anyone else (means everyone from Team Leather) hit pause on that poster shot of Guy after Isabella says, "...undermining my louse of a brother"??? Fess up! Boy I sure did
What a happy ending! Wanted to dance around my living room. Been awhile since we've had one like that and it sure was nice. Wish this series could go on forever. We have what, five more to go? So sad. . .
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 1:35 PM
in response to: muse-askew
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I'll 'fess up :>The "poster shot" of Guy---oh, yeah! I watched again and paused it right there--SWOON!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 11:29 PM
in response to: muse-askew
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I have that particular screencap saved on my computer. It's a very intricate (that's the best word I can think of for it) expression, even though it looks sort of blank initially.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 7:58 AM
in response to: lexiconia2
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Just wanted to say what a beautiful summary you wrote. Everything I noted you mailed head on. And great use of William Bates. I'm a new member to this board and enjoy all the well thought out discussions.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 11:42 AM
in response to: lexiconia2
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I haven't seen the season through yet but I gather that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" might also come to mind?
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 12:44 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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What are strawberries supposed to mean ????
Are they an aphrodisiac or something ???
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 12:50 AM
in response to: gailmaria51
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Not an aphrodisiac but I think strawberries are often seen as an "erotic" food.
They also mean a very serious anachronism, since strawberries were not cultivated in Europe until the 17th Century.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 1:11 AM
in response to: ladykate63
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I think that's the other possible word that came to me just after I hit the "post message" button.
I felt so sorry for Robin in this one - Jonas' excellent acting (again) made it very clear what RH is really wanting (both in the water with Isabella thinking about a life together, and looking back at that couple).
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 1:12 AM
in response to: gailmaria51
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An anachronistic aphrodisiac!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 1:38 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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Is Jonas wearing a hairpiece, or did he have hair transplants, or what ??? ! ! ! ! (would Rogaine really work that well??) In the "swimmin hole" he brushed his wet hair back and I didn't see any big bald area like we spotted in S1 ...............
In the "Treasure of The Nation" when they were running into the forest and found that tunnel (?), the wind blew JA's hair back enough that we all noticed he was going prematurely bald clear to the back of his head on his left side and figured that's why the hair / makeup people were brushing his hair forward to the front (which he does now himself) ????
I noticed the same thing during the sceen in BoB when that psycho guy brushed his front hair back with his hand - "Hey, how did Jonas get all that hair there ??? Did they fit him with a hairpiece ??"
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 8:35 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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Fun episode, and even more fun reading everyone's comments! I'll add some when I've had a chance to watch again. Loved the remarks about---
Guy "fangirl" service--:) He gets tied up again in the next one, too, doesn't he?
Kate--gets captured again, but at least she gets herself free this time, and makes herself useful.
Poor Much, he just can't see that Kate doesn't give a darn about him.
Robin at last starts to free himself of his blinding crush on Isabella.
A couple of scenes I also liked---the standoff between Robin, Guy, and Isabella, when Robin says too bad you didn't show the same compassion to Marian before you ran her through. Love the way Guy says "Shut it!" Yeah, thanks, Robin, you just had to bring that up, didn't you? Maybe you're not the only one trying to forget here, ever think of that?
I think I already mentioned this on another thread, but I also got a laugh out of Robin and Guy standing facing each other over the well, unwittingly cooperating for just a few seconds to push PJ into the water. The way they then both look up, their eyes meet, and they jump backward like they've been jolted with an electric shock--there's something so comic about it! For a few seconds, at least, they recognize that they have a common enemy in Isabella and Prince John. The very slightest beginnings of understanding between these two, perhaps?
Guy's 15 minute Sheriffdom--LOL! Probably the shortest in history, yes. Since he threatened PJ the "monarch" with a sword, is Guy now officially an outlaw, too? And what prompted him to suddenly call PJ a fake, fraud, etc.? Only because the Prince revoked his Sheriff's title, or did a lightbulb finally switch on in Guy's brain and he saw Prince John for what he really was?
About Guy believing Robin could get himself out of his watery grave---I think it very likely. Robin has shown himself to be a master escape artist. This may be completely off-the-wall, but I think deep-down Guy knew perfectly well that Robin would get himself out. I think they BOTH get a kick out of this game they play with each other. Guy may hate Robin (at least for now) and be envious of him, but underneath I believe there's a great deal of grudging admiration. Anyone agree, or am I alone in this?
More thoughts later.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 10:31 AM
in response to: manxcatmom
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Good episode and even better commentary everyone! "Too Hot" had two great fights, too many Robin and Isabella trysts, and real "bite" from Guy and Prince John as real menacing baddies, not comic buffoons. The most moving scene was Robin telling Izzy that he wanted to forget Marian, yet clearly he must remember her to keep himself together. The scene with them in the drowning pool talking of a future together seemed a hallucinatory mirage.
Best line: Robin to Izzy - "Shut up!" Juiciest goof: where did Robin get sweet strawberries in the middle of a drought? (Strawberries were known to Europeans early on - they grew wild in Italy B.C.E. - but were not found or cultivated in droughts.) Please....
It has become for the nonce the Gizzy and Izzy Hour, guest starring PJ Lackland, all three of whom seem to lack the critical virtues of common decency and humanity. All this lunacy just means S3 is a very guilty pleasure.
The missing bits: Robin's common sense, the gang's individuality and camaraderie, and a real plan, okay half a plan, to curb PJ and bring justice to the shire and England. Of just such stuff are legends made. I confess what is left on offer is still so darn addictive - guess I'm not the only one to think so.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 11:29 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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I have a question of those who have seen the whole season - did Izzie ever actually care for Robin (I'm sorry, I can't see her with 4 rugrats growing her own vegetables - was her dream her just telling him what she knew he wanted) or was she always just manipulating him/hedging her bets? I was wondering if she is now a woman scorned or just one who realizes she can no longer use RH to her advantage. They didn't develop her very thoroughly. Please tell me she and RH are completely a done deal. I found their relationship offensive to Marian's memory and RH's intelligence.
Noone else mentioned this but I got the impression that Guy didn't FEEL what he expected to feel when PJ handed him the keys to Nottingham. I keep thinking I see the wheels in his head spinning and him realizing that maybe he's been going down the wrong path.
I was hoping I would find this episode more satisfying. IMHO, RH barely redeemed himself in regards to Marian though I know I need to rewatch it before I'll be sure. I am glad I am not the only one who felt he wasn't thinking about Izzie in the water when she was discussing her dream. If that is what they intented (and no projection on our parts) then JA did a good job. I thought RH underreacted to Izzie's suggestion of abandoning Kate. I would have expected him to be more appalled at the thought of liking someone who would suggest abandoning one of his gang/villagers.
It's still a very schitzy show - they can make us notice small facial expressions and read a book's worth of emotion/thought into them and then they can leave a huge, gaping hole in the story that one could drive a coach and 10 through.
P.S - I never noticed JA's balding spot but there are a numer of medications (oral) now that do thicken up some types of hair thinning...
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 12:32 PM
in response to: simnsays
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simsys (sp?) - If you have the DVD's of S1 & S2 (maybe), the episode "Treasure of the Nation (I don't remember what number these episodes are) RH & the gang are racing to find the "treasure" before the Sheriff does.
As they run out of an open meadow into the edge of the forest (towards a tunnel (which proves to be false), apparently there was a bit of a breeze that day, because as Jonas is running to keep up with the rest of them (strung out in front of him) the wind lifted up his hair on the front-left of his head for a couple of seconds - just enough to reveal to the viewers that he has a rather large totally bald area on the top left side of his head, from almost the middle top all the way to the back crown of his head. He does have hair in both sides of his head, the top center and pretty much on his right side, but even the top center and right side hairline looked to be receeding.
Also, in the episode of the Sheriff dunking Matilda - Robin goes underwater to save her. I thought, "okay, now let's see what shows" because when a person is unerwater, your hair floats up and around your head with the pressure (?) of the water. But Jonas or the hair / makeup people must have thought of that & "glued" (?) his hair down some way, because when I was watching him underwater, his hair still layed down flat on his head. Not a hair moved - that's not natural underwater.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 12:41 PM
in response to: gailmaria51
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I do have the DVDs - I'll have to go back and look... Thanks
Speaking of hair - how come a brunette like RA doesn't have any chest hair? I've been wondering about this for quite awhile.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 1:25 PM
in response to: simnsays
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I think he waxes, or shaves it off. (ouch, talk about razor burn!)
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 9:18 AM
in response to: gailmaria51
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Do you think the wierd (and apparently temporary) bald spot might have had anything to do with his makeup for The Street? Not sure about the timeframe but a thought.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 11:14 PM
in response to: simnsays
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No - the bald area (it was more than just a spot) was spotted during the middle of S1. He did "The Street" during their hiatus between S2 and S3.
And we were not the only one who noticed it - i found another Jonas site (not Lucky's), and reading through the comments, saw two or three who were saying "Is Jonas going bald ?" "I don't care if he went TOTALLY bald, he's STILL sexy ! ! !'.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 1:40 PM
in response to: simnsays
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I don't think what Robin felt for Isabella had anything remotely to do with intelligence--LOL! As for Isabella, she's smarter than all the rest of them put together, albeit in a bad way.
I agree about Guy's reaction to being handed the keys of Nottingham. A pretty hollow victory for him, and I think he knew it.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 10:32 PM
in response to: simnsays
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I definitely agree that (1) Robin was thinking of Marian when Izzy was telling him about her domestic dreams, and (2) Guy didn't feel what he expected when he was handed the keys -- I think he realizes at that point how empty his dream of power really was.
Will have more to say in my full review.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 12:10 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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To the strawberry query: If you look up Shakespearean symbolism from Othello you will find many sexual implications that strawberries have.
The Guy calling out PJ for being a fraud was fantastic. I agree that the thing he has been reaching for, his ultimate goal of becoming Sheriff was a let down. Holding those keys, he must have been thinking of everything he's done, everything he's given up. And that was all he had to show for it. At the point when he threatens PJ, he has nothing else to lose. He knows all the PJ has done, but he has supported because he thought that would get what he wanted. He doesn't want it and he is a dead man anyway, why not say what he really thinks of the prince?
I'm very excited, things really crank up from now on!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 3:11 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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I had to tevo this and just watched this episode, By the way, how many episodes are there in season 3 plase and thanks? I had way too much lemon cello and chocolate truffle cake last night and I was too sick to watch it in full form last night. It seems that Isabella has been scorned by Robin and their realtionship goes downhill from here. I could be wrong. I don't think its that Robin didnt want the dream of a white picket fence, he just didn't want it with Isabella. After all, he did give an engagement ring to Marian, he loved her deeply, and their history was tried, tested and true. I noticed that Kate kissed him or the cheek. Whats going on there?? lol
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 5:15 PM
in response to: Cast3131
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I totally agree with you Cast regarding Robin's dream of that white picket fence AND family. Yet, his face said it all.....those dreams were out of his reach, since his one true love was not on this earth....Marian. It was the hope of what could have been and was not. His heart was only half into Isabella, but we all know how his whole being lit up with Marian. It was very heartbreaking for me to see him at these moments. I would say more, but it would allude to a big spoiler......
My oh my oh my......my Sir Guy!!! He IS just so fascinating watching the multiple layers of his emotions....
When he was handed the keys to Nottingham
Isabella's betrayal
Prince John firing him as the Sheriff
Sealing Isabella and Robin in the water room (whatever it was called, LOL)
Sword fighting....LOVE all the sword fighting between Robin, Isabella and Guy!
The gang just seemed to be the background story of, FIND WATER, and I must admit that Brother John's attempt to find water was a bit over the top, but heck.....this IS Robin Hood and if I can believe the hang glider incident, then I will accept this one...LOL!
Did anyone notice the similarities of the characters of Prince John and the Sheriff?? Perhaps because the Sheriff was not in this episode, but Prince John's personality was very similar to the Sheriff's. Except for one....Prince John wants to be loved, but the Sheriff could care less.
I do believe that Isabella had a *thing* for Robin, but now that he has spurned her....well, we all know that saying, Hell hath no fury than a woman scorned! LOL!!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 7:02 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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Wasn't Guy fascinating in this one? Wow, the emotions RA can portray---riveting!
I just got home from an office cleaning job, and so I feel another long-winded, detergent-fume-induced spiel coming on. Be warned! The following is full of SPOILERS from upcoming episodes:
I was thinking about the glimpses we got in this episode about the relationship between Robin/Guy/Isabella/Marian. Maybe this is totally off-the-wall, too, but it brought to mind the "flashback" episode, #10.
In my weird convoluted thinking, Malcolm is like Guy, Rodger is like Robin, Ghislaine obviously is Marian. We've got Ghislaine married to Rodger, and very in love with him, like Robin and Marian minus the marriage. But off he goes to the Crusades, and who steps in but Malcolm. Guy stepped into Marian's life after Robin left her for the Crusades, and tried to take her affections for himself.
Marian, like Ghislaine, is "stirred" by this new lover (despite all arguments to the contrary on Robin's part. His remark to Isabella--"she never gave him any reason, etc."--total denial! He didn't know his little Marian as well as he thought!) When Robin returns, Marian is torn in her feelings for both men, just like Ghislaine when Rodger comes home unexpectedly.
Ghislaine sees in Malcolm a man who can give her what Rodger cannot--a home and security, and a standing in the community. Rodger is now a leper and an outcast. In the same way, Marian sees in Guy a man who can give her what Robin, as an outlaw, cannot---a home, security, a place in society. He has "qualities", as she points out to Robin. She doesn't love Guy the way she loves Robin, but she's not blind to the advantages of such a match, in the same way Ghislaine convinces herself that she should be with Malcolm.
Rodger, the good, honorable man, fights to win back his lady from Malcolm, who is not quite so good and honorable. Far from it--- Malcolm is willing to kill Rodger to get what he wants. In the end, he instead kills the woman he "loves". Accidentally, but she's just as dead. Rodger, like Robin, chooses to spare the man who kills his wife. Malcolm, and later, Guy, are left alive to be slowly torn apart by grief, shame, and remorse.
Malcolm and Rodger destroy each other. One dies, the other might as well have died. Guy and Robin are on the same path until Malcolm comes back from the dead, so to speak, to try to stop them.
I know I'm trying to create sympathy for Guy (Team Leather all the way!), but the way Isabella and Robin made fun of Guy's bed-wetting problem made me think about the impact his childhood trauma had on him. Guy basically loses his father three times---once when he leaves for the Crusades and they all presume he's dead, again when he returns as a leper and is thrown out by the villagers, and then when he dies for real, in a fire that Guy believes is his fault.
What's that got to do to a person? I know, as I'm sure many of you do, the effect that the loss of a father has on a child, in this case the young teenager Guy. My DH's father walked out on his wife and kids when my husband was 12, and went off to make a comfortable living while leaving them to fend for themselves. My husband didn't speak to his father for years. They managed to patch things up for a while, but sadly are now estranged again.
Anyway, my point is, it's devastating to a child, and probably even more to a teenager. It's not that a person can't go on to lead a productive life, but it does leave lifelong scars. My husband, although he worked his way through college and is gainfully employed and happily married, went through some very tough emotional times. He fights a daily battle with low self-esteem. There are times I really have to be the strong one for him.
Applying this to Guy, he lost his father at a very crucial time. Not only that, but his mother, too. For twenty-plus years he blames himself for their deaths. And he and his sister are driven out of the village to an uncertain fate. Robin, on the other hand, although also left "orphaned", has the love and support of the villagers. His upbringing from then on his entirely different than Guy's.
It makes me wonder how Guy might have turned out if his father had been there for him. It's clear that Guy was never a sunny child, and he had that awful temper. But Rodger, who came across to me as a kind and deeply caring man, could have steered his son in the right way. Instead, Guy, at a still impressionable age, comes under the influence of Vaisey, the master manipulator.
Although it's true that, as Robin said "everything we do is a choice", we are still, to one degree or another, products of our upbringing, and those experiences shape who we are whether we like it or not.
Just some thoughts on my favorite "Guy".
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 8:28 PM
in response to: manxcatmom
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SPOILER!***
I think Guy was about 15 in the upcoming flashback, so it was after his bedwetting days. It could have been linked to his father being in the Holy Land, the pressures of being the man of the house, etc. It was a low blow from Izzy, but still a little bit funny considering how we view him in the show as being powerful, masculine (and you know, sexy), it was some unexpected juxtaposition.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 8:31 PM
in response to: lexiconia2
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I'm not sure the bedwetting thing was even true. It sounded to me like a gratuitously nasty comment from Izzy...
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 8:00 AM
in response to: lexiconia2
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SPOILERS!
When I mentioned the bed-wetting comment from Isabella, it was only because it brought to my mind Guy's childhood and young adult experiences. I wasn't trying to use it as an example of how traumatized he was.
At 12, his father may very well have still been with his family, and perhaps at that point Guy and Isabella's lives were quite good. Rodger and Ghislaine appeared to be decent people. Children from "normal" families can have bed-wetting problems--it's not uncommon.
My point was how different things were for Guy once his father was out of the picture, and how his life may have gone in a much better direction if not for, as Malcolm said "the mistakes your parents made".
Personally, I thought it was very childish of Robin and Isabella to laugh at Guy's bed-wetting problem. Isabella's still that angry, hurt little girl, and Robin has some growing up to do, too. IMO.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 8:10 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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Maryrose,
well it's comparing apples and oranges really.. Isabella who is beautiful, powerful, commanding and obvious as a front page headline.....somewhat forceful and assertive. THEN... there was Marian, who was 100x more beautiful ( k, some of us are partial).....genuine, a woman of strength, compassionate, no underlying design or agenda...just loved her friends, family and country. I think the saddest part of Marian dying is what could have been. She has such a history with Robin that no other woman would compare. His fate was sealed the day she died. Now, i'm not a firm believer that there is only one person made for us. I think there are many good people, it just depends on who wanders down out paths at the right time. I don't think Robin's heart was ever opened up for that kind of reception. That's just my opinion. =)
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 8:11 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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Watching last weeks encore, I realized i was wrong about isabella's kisses with Robin. They were better than I remembered - however, Lucy still gives better kisses, and she & Jonas "worked out better together" in the kissing scenes.
Richard & Jonas, both, are SUCH GREAT ACTORS when it comes to displaying a range of emotions (even on top of each other within a few seconds time in a shot) ! ! ! !
And those two are SUCH A GOOD MATCH in fight scenes against each other ! ! ! ! Jonas is SO FAST in his moves, and with the sword (as is RA), your eyes and brain can't keep up with what each of them are doing. Their swordfights are highlights of the show ! ! ! !
But WHOEVER Jonas is fighting, he learned from that Drama Course of Battle (at RADA) SO WELL that he's almost a blur of movement in a fight scene.
(When I went back into the DVD's to find that interview of JA, I saw the clip of him swinging that sword (?) around in the first episode. I replayed it a couple of times just to watch him do that - man, he was good at it ! ! ! ! He had it on a leather strap or something and took advantage of the strap to let the sword handle slide around in his hand like a gunslinger doing fancy "gun-twirling" . Oh, my gosh, he had that thing swinging around so fast, the sword and his hand were both blurs ! ! ! I remember when I first got the DVD;s and was catching up to the first half of S1 - I saw that scene of sword-swinging, was fascinated by his skill, and replayed that clip a number of times, enjoying it again each time.)
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 8:29 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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I forgot to mention - has anyone seen the advertising poster for "The Seeker"? ?? (I'm not sure if it's a film or TV show coming up)
It looks awfully influenced by what Jonas wore in RH - a youngish blonde guy in tan pants with a dark brown wide lether belt, dark brown plain knee-high boots, beige or white shirt under a tan leather (?) long-sleeved jacket wildly swinging a sword through the air - alongside a long brown-haired young woman in a floor-length, flowing garment of yellow soft-looking material, ALSO wildly swinging a sword - both of them fighting at a crowd of brown-clad people underneath their feet.
I took one look and started laughing - "Oh man, talk about imitating Robin Hool ! ! !"
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 25, 2009 8:33 PM
in response to: gailmaria51
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I think you mean Legend of the Seeker.
I'm not sure it's an RH imitation so much as something in the same genre. It's produced by Rob Tapert and Sam Raimi, creators of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and its offshoot, Xena: Warrior Princess, two fantasy/action shows in the 1990s which, in turns, were major influences on the BBC version of RH.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 9:13 AM
in response to: ladykate63
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Please, stop mentioning Xena.... LOL Everytime one of you does, I have to go find my drool bib for the God of War which is just so NOT right for a woman who tries to be a pacifist....
Is it based on the movie the Legend of the Seeker?
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 11:18 AM
in response to: gailmaria51
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There was a movie called the "Seeker" AND there is a tv series called "Legend of the Seeker," which season 2 starts next month. Legend of the Seeker is loosely based on the books by Terry Goodkind, Sword of Truth series. Since it's produced by the team who did Xena and Hercules, it's has that fighting flare that they've used before.
I really enjoyed season 1......it's on NBC.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 4:45 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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Someone mentioned Allan's funny remark when he and Robin and Kate were stealing water from the guards (why are all the guards in this show such idiots?
I listened to it again. He DOES say it--"Really, it's not like I asked for ice and a slice now, is it?" Love those cheeky Allan moments that are hard to come by now.
When Robin, Guy, and Isabella are facing off, and Guy tells his sister she can prove her loyalty by killing Robin in front of him, I love how Robin gets this disgusted, resigned look and says to Isabella, "oh, just do it. You're a rubbish kisser anyway. Go on, it'll make his day" (referring to Guy). We just know our ever resourceful Robin is NOT about to stand there and let one or other of the Gis sibs skewer him. He's got at least half-a-plan for some outrageous and ingenious escape running through his head!
Guy's "Shut it!" to Robin has been added to my very lengthy list of favorite Guy moments.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 4:57 PM
in response to: manxcatmom
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I rewatched the episode and you are correct, he did say that...
I had to rewatched because I had trouble catching what Robin said when Icky Izzie asked him about Marian. They all mumble.
Hey - noone mentioned that Kate's friend with the baby had "THE BRAID"... LOL It didn't hang down stupidly though like Kate's.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 5:20 PM
in response to: simnsays
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It didn't really bother me on her friend... maybe it's some wierd village girl cult thing. I thought her friend had some of the funniest lines in the episode, the robin story, talking about her husband soiling his diapers, etc. She was actually quite witty.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 26, 2009 11:41 PM
in response to: lexiconia2
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This is a general reply - I thought the scenes during which Robin is obviously thinking of Marian (when Izzie is relating her dream and when the Locksley* couple talks about baby Robin) were beautifully acted by Jonas. Adding Marian's theme playing softly in the background wasn't really necessary (I think we got the message) but it was a nice touch - yes, I am a hopeless romantic and yes, I did cry.
*I'm not a musician so don't know if there is a technical name for it, but during the drought in Locksley scene, the Locksley theme sounded very (for lack of a better term) sad..
POSSIBLE SPOILER
There is a site that features a beautiful collection of photos from the S3 Finale. If you would like the url, send me a pm.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 7:29 AM
in response to: nrs
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Yes, I believe this is the first time (since ep. 1) when we see Robin reflecting back on Marian. He might be trying to substitute Isabella in her place for a while, but of course it doesn't work.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 7:25 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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I think I asked this question before, but does anyone have any thoughts on what prompted Guy to turn on Prince John so suddenly, other than his anger at having his Sheriff's title taken away? Suicide by prince, or did he finally see PJ for what he was? The beginning of a big change of heart for Guy, or just desperation?
He must have realized that threatening a "monarch" was going to get him into serious trouble--outlawed, perhaps? I'm curious as to other's ideas on this. I'm stumped myself.
Just thought of another question to tack on. After Robin and Isabella clunk Guy over the head with that stick of wood, and Isabella moves to finish him off, Robin stops her. Why?
It was the perfect chance to get rid of his enemy. He could reason that Guy was unconscious already, so he'd never know what hit him, or he could have let Isabella do the actual deed, so Guy's death wouldn't be on his hands. Instead, he stops her.
Even more interesting to me, he says to her, "what about what HE might have to say?" Since when has Robin cared about anything that Guy has to say? Hmmm.....
edited by manxcatmom
Message was edited by: manxcatmom
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 8:57 AM
in response to: manxcatmom
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I believe he is finally coming to his senses, LOL!! He took enough bashing from the Sheriff, and I do believe that with PJ, enough was enough. Plain and simple...he just snapped....imho.
Perhaps the bump on the head made him see the light, LOL!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 9:41 AM
in response to: manxcatmom
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If you remember Robin did have a chance to kill Guy, but he didn't because he wanted him to live w/ what he had done to Marian. If Robin had of killed Guy, then Guy would of had the easy way out. Now, he's got to live with himself and what he did to Marian.
I don't understand either why Robin would care about what Guy would have to say to Izzy.
Was it just me, or did Robin dry off rather quickly after he got out of the water while pullling out Izzy?
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 9:48 AM
in response to: evil_urges
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I noticed the drying off thing too and I also wondered why Izzie didn't remove her dress alot sooner - hard to tread water in 40 pounds of velvet... I also had to turn my brain off to deal with aiming arrow at tiny ring while treading water - at least they didn't have him succeed 1st shot
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 8:26 PM
in response to: evil_urges
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Oh, it's UNBELIEVABLE how quickly they can " dry off ".
The episode where he went underwater to save Matilda - and was in Loxsley Pond was several minutes with her - the next scene they're coming out. I don't remember if she looked wet or not, but he came out right after her and looked dry as bone.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 9:46 AM
in response to: manxcatmom
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I agree with MR, I think with PJ he simply snapped. Enough is enough. I think becoming Sheriff just didn't accomplish what he thought it would and he is all alone. I think we just heard him hit bottom.
It would not be in Robin's nature to encourage or allow Izzie to take on the kind of emotional burden that would come from murdering her brother - remember this season's ads repeat over and over the cost of revenge and what it does to the soul.
I haven't seen the rest of the season but I think RH is really, really tired of the fight...
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 8:50 PM
in response to: simnsays
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I agree about Robin being tired of the fight... I think he knows he's living on borrowed time at this point.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 11:20 AM
in response to: manxcatmom
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Well, Guy has never really been one to consider his actions carefully beforehand, has he? I think it's partly that being Sheriff was obviously not going to be what he expected it to be. He'd already had to shoulder the idea of killing not just Robin but his own sister. Believe it or not, family is actually more important to him than he's willing to admit.
I think the things he's already having to do to please the egomaniacal prince are no different than all the nasty things he's had to do before. In fact, they're becoming more and more nasty. I think it really hits him when he's asked whether Robin and Izzy are both dead. That nothing has changed, he's still having to do rotten things, and now that he's in charge, what he's going to be asked to do is only going to get worse.
He's also been treated to a nastly little glimpse into PJ's character regarding Kate. There's no doubt what PJ had in mind for Kate, and he invited Guy to come along. Guy has never struck me as the type to resort to force for the sheer fun of it, or just because he can. But PJ would.
And I know there will be those who argue the point with me, that Guy forced Marian to agree to marry him, and threatened to force her in front of the Sheriff. Yes, those things are true. But at the same time, I don't think that if he and Marian had gotten married that he would have abused her at all. He would have been too grateful that he had her. And I am sure the threat he made to the Sheriff that he would take her by force was a pure lie. He would have acted the part, probably with Marian's complicity, but I don't for a second think he would ever have done it. He caved so many times to the things she asked of him, even risking his own neck to save hers. I think the only time he may have hurt her was if he found out she was still seeing Robin. Which is exactly what happened.
I really wish TPTB had gone the way RA suggested and married Guy and Marian instead of killing her. It would have been so much more interesting.
Going back to PJ and Kate, Guy does have a rather bizarre sense of honor. I think he would see that sort of thing as dishonorable. He was always the one to advocate just killing Robin outright. It may have been that he felt it was the best way, instead of humiliating Robin in the manner of his death, just give it to him quickly as a worthy adversary. The Sheriff was the one who always wanted something slow and degrading. The drowning pool for Robin and Isabella may have been so Guy didn't have to watch his own sister die, not necessarily because he wanted something slow and painful for both of them.
I agree with others in response to this that Robin already knows what it's like to have blood on his hands, he wouldn't recommend that for someone else. He says something like when it's done, there's no going back, or at least that was the message in his words. Robin and Guy both know how badly killing tears your soul apart, he wouldn't wish that feeling on Izzy. And I think Robin and Guy are more alike than they know, in that it wouldn't be right for one to kill the other while they were completely defenseless. It certainly isn't for Robin to do, or allow to be done, even to his greatest enemy.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 1:11 PM
in response to: LNspook7
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Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts! I recall an interview with RA in which he was asked-- what was the hardest thing to play about Guy? He said the scenes where Guy is being humiliated by the Sheriff.
So I'm inclined to agree with the idea that he's simply had enough at this point. He's traded the Sheriff's tyranny for Prince John's. Becoming the new sheriff came at the cost of "killing" his own sister, which goes against all his beliefs about loyalty and family. He's got power now (for about 15 minutes, anyway) like he never had before in his life--Sheriff of Nottingham and best buddies with PJ, but on reflection, what does it all mean? Nothing if you're still being bullied.
I liked your thought about Guy's sense of honor, LNspook7 (thanks also for sticking up for Guy in the matter of Marian . Kill Robin quickly, as a worthy adversary. As an example, in ep. 2, when Robin is in the dungeon telling Guy he'll never hate him as much as he hates himself, Guy pulls out his sword, and the Sheriff says, "oh, put it away! Always in such a hurry!"
As far as the drowning in the well (not a quick death), I still believe Guy knew deep down that Robin would get himself out somehow. On some level it's all a game, though a very dangerous one, between these two. Only my opinion. Otherwise, I'd have to admit that Guy is unbelievably thick not to know this, after all of Robin's escapes from escape-proof traps. I'd hate to think that of my man....although, there was the matter of the Tin Man suit, oh dear! And the lion! My goodness!
As for Robin not wanting Isabella to have the guilt of her brother's blood on her hands, that makes sense. He does say to her, "once you do it, there's no going back. There's nothing more to be said or done." MINOR SPOILER:
Remember that Robin in upcoming episodes has several more opportunities to kill Guy, and not just in cold blood, as when he's unconscious. In each case, he chooses not to. Robin being honorable as well, I assume. Or maybe, as one of you suggested, he's tired of the fight. Good stuff coming in the weeks ahead!
edited by manxcatmom
Message was edited by: manxcatmom
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 4:46 PM
in response to: LNspook7
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We had been talking earlier about how much of a letdown actually becoming Sheriff must have been for Guy considering all he sacrificed for it along the way. That certainly made him feel like there was nothing left to lose. I agree he was also probably tire of being treated so poorly, nothing had changed even though he was "in power".
I agree that what PJ had in store for Kate was not Guy's cup of tea. He could be brutal under command, but I never felt he enjoyed excessive brutality, especially toward women. I never remember him "making an example" out of a woman by his choice, and I never saw Guy as a rapist by any means. His desire for love and affection is so strong, it would never have been satisfied by that sort of force. And I agree that with Marian he tried to make her love him every step of the way, he just didn't go about it right most of the time.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 5:32 PM
in response to: lexiconia2
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Guy as a rapist? No, I agree, I can't see him doing that, either. He might have enjoyed slapping Kate around a bit, as he didn't like her very much, but haven't we all wanted to at times, especially as she gets caught at least once every show? LOL! Really, I'm only kidding!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 9:02 PM
in response to: LNspook7
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Pretty much agree with everything you say, LNspook7! I saw Guy's "I will take her by force" (about Marian) as something he was saying for the Sheriff's benefit, to get him to spare Marian's life. Obviously the Sheriff knew that Marian was not going to willingly marry Guy now, so the only way it was going to happen was if he forced her into marriage. I also can't see him raping her -- he wanted her to love him, and I think Guy was delusional enough at that point to think that even in that situation (where he forcibly married her after Robin and King Richard were both dead), she would, "in time," warm up to him and willingly come to his bed. (And good God, what a horrible situation such a "marriage" would have been for both Marian and Guy ... )
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 3:17 PM
in response to: Maryrose
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Season 3 continues with another great episode! Lots of twists and turns here for all the characters, with turning points for the Robin/Isabella storyline as well as Guy of Gisborne's character arc.
I'll start with Robin Hood, since the show is still called Robin Hood and not Guy of Gisborne.
For the most part I liked Robin in this episode. While I'm not much of a Robin/Marian shipper, I found the moment when he remembers Marian (while hugging Isabella in the watery dungeon) and thinks of a life with her while Isabella shares her dream of the medieval version of the house with the white picket fence to be really moving. This is also the moment, I think, when Robin lets go of the dream of a "normal life." In Seasons 1 and 2, Robin always believed that his life as the leader of an outlaw gang was just a temporary thing until King Richard returned and he went back to being the lord of Locksley (with Marian as his lady). I think that now he knows that's gone forever, in large part because Marian is gone. The bit at the end where Robin looks wistfully at the peasant family with the baby is likewise quite poignant. At this point, Robin Hood the national legend has taken over the life of Robin of Locksley, and that's the way it's going to be until the end of his life.
It's also interesting that he tells Izzy that he caused a lot of pain before by trying to pursue a romantic dream. I think he does believe it's largely his fault that Marian died -- if he hadn't gotten her involved in his cause, she'd still be alive (probably as Lady G). If that's the case, I think he fundamentally misunderstands Marian; her commitment to his cause wasn't due to their romance, but more the other way round, IMO. It's also amusing to hear him tell Isabella that Marian never gave Guy any encouragement -- um, really? We're talking Orwell-worthy revionist history here, given that Robin has seen Marian flirt with and kiss Guy (he always seemed to play the voyeur on those occasions). I wonder if this is something that Robin says for Isabella's benefit, or if he really has rewritten history that much in his head to turn Marian into the idealized girl of his dreams whose only purpose in life was to love him.
Isabella (and Robin/Isabella). I've always felt that Robin, altruistic as he is toward The People, has a tendency to treat the actual people (with a lower-case p) nearest to him in a rather shabby and egotistical manner, and one could argue that he does the same here to Isabella -- basically leading her on and then ditching her for The Cause (after she got herself outlawed and severed all her ties to her brother -- who, for all his considerable... flaws, is at least interested in protecting her -- because of her association with Robin). My sympathy for Izzy, however, is limited by the fact that (1) it's far from clear to me that she has real feelings for Robin -- her involvement with him has a large dose of opportunism (she senses that ultimately he's on the "winning side") and desire for revenge against her "louse of a brother"; and (2) I don't think Robin actually misled her -- he never promised her that he would leave the gang for her and settle into domesticity. I know Kate isn't exactly a popular character, and given how often she gets herself captured, you could argue that it would be a lot easier on everyone to just leave her in the dungeon since she'll end up back there anyway ... but still, for Izzy to suggest that Robin run off with her and leave a member of his gang to rot in prison was not particularly nice. Indeed, when Iz says shortly after that, "I'm not her!" (i.e. Marian), I was tempted to say: No, you're not.
At the same time, given the hand she's been dealt in life, I do think Isabella remains somewhat sympathetic even in her opportunism. I love the scene where she does her turnabout -- she knows just how to play Prince John, of course, and for some reason I especially love her dramatic proclamation that she has been "a weak, vain woman blinded by his [Robin's] flattery." Oh, and before that, very nice moment of ambiguity when she and Robin are chained together and Guy tells her to kill Robin. Whom is she playing -- Robin or Guy? My guess is that she wants to see which way the fight goes, and then pick the winning side; that's Isabella all over. And then she wants to kill Guy when he's unconscious! ACK! Did anyone else get the impression in that scene that Izzy is a bit ... mental?
Guy of Gisborne. Where to start. So much happens to him in this episode (besides setting a world record for shortest tenure as Sheriff, that is :D).
1. He finds himself in the middle of a bizarre replay of the Marian situation: Once again, a woman to whom he has offered his protection, and who has sworn to him that she will have nothing further to do with Robin Hood, is betraying him with Robin. Ouch. Some people have suggested that Guy's offer to let Isabella off the hook if she killed Robin was not just an attempt to give her another chance (and prove her loyalty to him), but also on some level an attempt to stage a psychodrama in which Isabella plays the role of Marian -- only this time it ends not with Marian professing her love for Robin and Guy killing Marian, but with "Marian" killing Robin. It makes sense to me.
2. He find himself in the middle of an equally bizarre replay of his twisted relationship with the Sheriff -- this time with Prince John in the Sheriff role, and even more twisted if possible. (I'm not sure that even Vaisey would have invited Guy to have a drink to celebrate killing his own sister!) Once again, he is serving a sadistic master who enjoys humiliating him, and who demands that he prove his loyalty by sacrificing a woman he cares about (obviously much less than he did for Marian, but still -- she is his little sister). He's pretty close to breaking point when PJ jeeringly offers him a drink -- it's obvious that it's all he can do to restrain himself from telling PJ just where to shove it.
3. He finally achieves power, only to realize -- as I think is clear from his demeanor -- that it brings him no joy; there is a fleeting smile, and then only emptiness. It's also fitting that Guy's moment of glory becomes another humiliation; the dismissive way in which Prince John hands him the keys to Nottingham is hardly offset by his blatantly insincere praise moments later.
4. When Prince John fires him, Guy finally snaps. He's had enough of playing lackey to slightly mad sadists, and in one moment he just throws it all away. I'm sure he could have tried to ingratiate himself with John -- say, by skewering (unarmed) Isabella and Robin on the spot -- but instead he not only physically threatens PJ but commits the ultimate crime of puncturing his kingly pretensions.
A few more observations about Guy: I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't want to kill Isabella. Leaving her and Robin to drown in a water-filled dungeon is obviously not a very brotherly thing to do -- but I think what's interesting here is that (1) he can't bring himself to actually shed her blood, or to watch her die, and (2) he leaves her locked up with a known escape artist who could put Houdini to shame (had Houdini been around in the 12th Century). If Robin could free himself from that supposely escape-proof cell in 3 x 02 (Cause and Effect), it's really not that much of a stretch to think that he has a good chance of freeing himself from a dungeon cell filled with water. (He is, as he reminds Isabella and us, Robin Hood!) And even after Isabella betrays Guy to Prince John, Guy doesn't try to kill her but simply kicks her into the water.
He knows, of course, that he's lying to Prince John and that Robin and Iz are not dead when he says they are. And when he agrees to accompany John to the dungeons, he has to know that even if Robin and Iz have not gotten out, they can't be dead yet. So I would say that, unconsciously at least, he sabotages himself. (He also doesn't seem all that shocked when he sees them alive.)
Robin and Guy. Some interesting moments in this episode suggesting that there is more to the relationship between Robin and Guy than just being mortal enemies. Robin stops Isabella from killing Guy; I was particularly intrigued by his "What about what he has to say?" comment. Does Robin still want to hear something from Guy about Marian's murder?
Of course, this is also the first time we actually see Robin and Guy fight on the same side in the 4-way fight. (Alas, not as kinky as it sounds. ) Love the bit when, after they force PJ down the well, they take a few moments to remember that they're supposed to fight each other. :lol And then their great little exchange: "You're a dead man walking, Gisborne! -- Never seems to do you much harm." Is Guy suddenly looking at Robin Hood and thinking that he could do the outlaw thing too?
Other random observations. Prince John continues to be both entertaining and genuinely scary (like in the scene where he has the peasant drowned in the barrell of water -- "Give that man a drink"). The "You've let the team down, Guy" was hilarious -- was that a reference to that Donald Trump reality show with the famous "You're fired" tag line? (What was it called again, The Apprentice?) And of course the petulant "It's not supposed to be like this!" was priceless.
The gang still gets too little to do, though at least Allan has a funny moment where he pretends to be dying of thirst (shades of Turk Flu! *feels nostalgic for S1*) The moment when Prince John's guards drown the villager and Tuck says "What have we done" is another useful reminder of the fact that Robin's fight for justice has a high cost, and it's usually ordinary people who pay it. If Robin & Co. hadn't interfered, Prince John would have been allowed to pose as the people's benefactor but that man would have been alive.
Very nice bit with the young Locksley couple and baby Robin, and the mom teasing Robin about how it's actually after the bird -- I guess people know Rob's a bit vain, and it was actually cute to see that touch of vanity. I didn't mind Kate too much in this ep, and I have to say the grateful kiss on the cheek was rather sweet. Though Isabella is still my favorite pairing for Robin. In my considered opinion, they should have had Marian marry Guy at the end of Season 2 and then have a Robin/Izzy pairing in S3. That could have made for some great storylines.
Finally, does anyone else think that "Too Hot to Handle" is a rather lame title for this ep?
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 3:41 PM
in response to: ladykate63
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Great review, as always, ladykate! There was a lot going on in this episode. I especially liked your observation on Guy's fleeting smile, then the look of emptiness, when he's given the keys to Nottingham in a rather off-handed way by PJ. Yep, not quite how he expected to feel.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 8:47 PM
in response to: manxcatmom
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Thanks! I really enjoy in-depth discussions of episodes and there's so much to discuss!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 9:33 PM
in response to: ladykate63
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Me, too. And we get such a mix of opinions and observations on this board, which makes it extra interesting and fun. Not to mention a wide range of topics--everything from deep psychological discussions of the various characters to lighter subjects like Guy's "spur silencers"
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 3:53 PM
in response to: ladykate63
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Kudos to LK and all the posters on Ep. 7! These are gripping and ripping reviews, every one. The discussions are as good as the script and just as enjoyable. Now if we could only rewrite S2, Ep. 13 - several ways are possible - and start S3 without the agony and disappointment. Alas and alack, it was not to be....
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 27, 2009 4:03 PM
in response to: plainjane
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Yes, wonderful reviews as always. I look forward to them each and every week.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 31, 2009 12:22 PM
in response to: evil_urges
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I agree with all the comments about this episdoe too espicially the three way face off with Robin Guy and Isabella.
But being the sword fight enthusitic that I am my favorite part was the all out for youself sword fight between Robin. Izzy Guy and prince John. I loved how they switch partners halfway through it and enjoyed it when Izzy and John jumped into the well. Kate giving Robin, the victor a quick kiss at he end was a nice touch.
Best onscreen sword fight I have seen in a long time and would have loved to have been there when they shot it.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Oct 31, 2009 9:02 PM
in response to: SirandLadySARCH
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Yes, good sword fight scene! Right up there with the opening fight between Robin and Guy in ep. 1.But when PJ jumped into the well, it really looked to me like he smacked his face on the edge of the well when he fell in--ouch! I hope I was seeing things and some poor stunt man didn't get hurt.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 11:08 AM
in response to: manxcatmom
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I noticed that as well when PJ jumped into the water, that it looked like he smacked his face.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 12:35 PM
in response to: evil_urges
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Glad to know it wasn't just me, then. Let's hope it was the camera angle and not an accident.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 1:55 PM
in response to: evil_urges
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I rewatched it and whoever the person was did appear to hit the edge of the opening but it looked like he might actually have done it with his hands in front of him so maybe it was intentional...
How obsesses our we???? Now we're worrying about the stunt persons.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 3:05 PM
in response to: simnsays
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Pray, not obsessed - just concussed and very observant. It's time for a S1 and S2 replay now. It's been two whole months without a visit to the early days in Sherwood. Barking mad might just describe my attachment to the show, come to think of it.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 5:20 PM
in response to: plainjane
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I've been rewatching my Firefly DVDs as a way to prevent myself from revisiting S1 and S2 until S3 is over. I'm afraid if I start watching S1 again while watching S3, I'll get totally bent out of shape again.
Yes, barking mad is a very good description....
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 10:10 PM
in response to: simnsays
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I'm about halfway through S1 again. Just couldn't help meself!
But Firefly is one of my all-time favorites. I usually watch it about once every month or couple of months.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 12:57 PM
in response to: Jules1592
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and they did such a great job on Serenity - tied up the stories lines beautifully!!! The RH folks could take some lessons from JW...
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 2:18 PM
in response to: simnsays
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Yeah, I agree! JW is great!!!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 6:03 PM
in response to: plainjane
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Ah....S1 and even part of S2......."return with us now to those early days of yesteryear".....what was that from?.....help me out ladies......
Yes, those early, innocent, days of RH when the good triumphed and evil would eventually get its comeuppance without mass murder........there was so much hope and humor in the show.....how dark it is now in comparison.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 6:26 PM
in response to: SoCalGal
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"Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear. ..." is from "The Lone Ranger." True blue lawmen bringing justice to the Old West. It had plenty of horses and a gallop in every episode. Good did triumph over evil and children slept safe in their beds. Hi Ho Silver... away!
You truly named what S3 sadly lacks - hope and humor. That I do not like.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 10:59 PM
in response to: plainjane
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Thanks for the Lone Ranger answer..I actually remembered it today in the middle of a restaurant during lunch.....I do eventually remember many things.....the memories just seem to be taking the scenic route through my brain before they can be accessed.
Yikes........my brain sometimes feels like "dial-up" in a "high speed" world !!!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 5:12 AM
in response to: SoCalGal
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Let's give dial-up its due. When the electricity is out, the phone almost always works. I love the phrase "the scenic route" for memories: it's a common fact for this Lone Ranger fan, too.
Something else has gone missing in S3, Ep. 7 (on topic): the real gang. They are just shadows of themselves now. And I'm not being funny for once.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 6:50 PM
in response to: ladykate63
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BRAVO ladykate!!!
and to everyone who contributed to THIS one.
This is one of the most enjoyable parts of this forum. We've discussed and reviewed these story lines from just about every angle possible, and yet.............................
someone manages to come up with something new and extrapolate even more than I believe even the writers themselves realized might be there.
Been rather occupied with the sad events at Fort Hood today, but it HAS provided an excellent forum for the therapy sessions with The Warriors.
So, as I am want to do, I will now turn to my Forest Family for refuge for at least a few moments of escape into Sherwood....
"Too Hot To Handle" is I think, QUITE the euphemism, and a not an altogether unsuitable one either.
This is the point where Robin, Guy, Isabella, PJ, and The Gang collectively, all have an epiphany of one kind or another. The memories and most important, what they REPRESENT, are the think that is SO hot, that to even touch it, (let alone HOLD it), causing SEARING pain. However, like a good old fashioned tooth ache, the pain is starting to become so bad that it begins to throb and simply CANNOT be ignored.
Robin,
He is indeed beginning to tire of the fight. He is confronted with the painful truth that he was only half right when he spat his accusation to Much upon their return to Sherwood and Locksley: "Robin Hood is dead. He died, in The Holy Land,
with Marian!"
As he holds Isabella in his arms, knowing with all his heart, that it should have been, and was meant to be , Marian, he realizes that it was NOT Robin Hood who died......
but,
Robin Of LOCKSLEY, who was buried beside his wife that day. Folks, he gets it wrong with Guy, it is rather HE that is the dead man walking. Robin of Locksley, Earl of Huntington, may not have been killed in The Holy Land, but he DIED there nevertheless.
It has taken Robin this long to confront THIS searing truth. It hits him like the proverbial freight train, and he can no longer disregard it hoping for another chance at the life to which he once aspired. He knows WHY he must continue on as Robin Hood and not Robin of Locksley, not just to serve the people of his village, (THE family who raised him), his new and chosen outlaw family, (who have supported, saved, and comforted him even when he was at his worst, and yes, even to THEM),
but,
to keep his sacred promise to the other half of his soul, his heart, his very BEING,
MARIAN. It is THIS,
becoming Robin Hood, that will keep HER in his heart and close to him at all times, until the end of his journey on this Earth.
We know Robin and the rest of The Gang were not privy to the final conversation between Marian and Guy, but someone else WAS, .....................King Richard himself. As the key material witness to Marian's murder, he heard and saw EVERYTHING. We don't know if he spared Robin the horrible and bloody details, but i think we can count on his telling Robin the truth, especially after he made the almost fatal mistake of disbelieving and turning on one of his most trusted servants. So, Robin must have known that Marian made her death defying declaration of her undying love for Robin HOOD, before she married him. This would have DEFINITELY weighed heavily on his decision to abandon his former life aspirations and ultimately refuse any offer of that life with a substitute for Marian. Also, Robin simply did not want to have the blood of another innocent person, a person he cared for and had the responsibility to protect, on his hands because of the life that HE had chosen to lead.
AS for himself, Robin now keenly senses, KNOWS, that no matter how long he have on this Earth, that his time is fast drawing to a close, and it is not a matter of IF but only of WHEN.
Isabella,
She has been the classic example of the traumatized child, abused and battered wife, and is suffering the affects of attachment disorder. She has enough of this ability left however, to know that she needs to fill that empty void in her life with something and/or someone. However, not knowing HOW to fill this hole, or just WHAT to look for, she becomes desperate to stop the pain and latches on to someone whom she believes will protect and provide for her.
When Robin meets her, he is also looking for someone and something to fill the void in HIS heart and life as well. He's attracted to her spirit, intelligence, and boldness. She shares these qualities with his late wife, but because she simply does not know how to trust anyone, or to simply believe that she is truly worthy of a man like Robin,
she seeks to seduce and trap him and hopefully to even force him to stay with her. Isabella therefore, bares her soul to Robin, hoping to finally make this precious dream she has been denied since she was a child come true, only to find that once again, she is to be "cast out" , just as she was from England 20 years ago.
My heart broke open for BOTH of them at that moment, when they realized that neither of them would ever realized their most cherished dream on this Earth. so very sad moment.
I have to go and make out some reports and begin another therapy session now, but later tonight I'll finish with Guys' and The Gang's various revelations that were also "too hot to handle" for them.
Pokeygirl
Fantastic work folks. Reading these critique's makes the many layers of these story lines come to life.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 6, 2009 7:34 PM
in response to: pokeygirl
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Good explanation of what went on between Robin and Isabella---hadn't given it that much thought. We've been accustomed to think of Isabella as the villain, but she didn't start out that way. Like her brother, her tragic past molded who she became.
Minor Spoiler: Guy overcomes his terrible past and his rotten ways at the end, Isabella, unfortunately, does not. She just goes from bad to worse. So sad for both of them, but at least a ray of hope for our Guy!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 12:18 AM
in response to: pokeygirl
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Hi MM,
Yes indeed,
Isabella did NOT start out as the frightened and damaged woman we and Robin meet in Sherwood. *(I will ALWAYS regret that the writers decided to use her as just another "plot device" and give her only a one dimensional reaction to the choices she must confront due to her involvement with Robin. )
*The Guys and I discussed and debated the scene of "Marian's Choice" in THL, AND the simple way in which Isabella could have been given a greater dimension and still satisfy the so called "target audience" of adolescent male/hormonal reaction. I'll share these as soon as I can complete Ep8 and 9 assessments, (bear with me folks, I'll get there, I promise).
Well, our therapy sessions around here have been interesting indeed given the trajedy at Fort Hood. (I don't know about you folks, but I find THAT name more than a little ironic when you think of our forum subject matter.) However, we've managed to apply some of the behavior of our RH characters (most notably Isabella and Guy), to the pent up rage expressed so violently by one of my colleagues in the counseling profession.
So now to Guy,
This man goes through SO many changes here, but he too is forced to confront the fact that his life has taken a turn that HE can no longer ignore. He, like Robin, finally realizes that his life has FOREVER changed, and he CANNOT go back. His old life, along with its ambitions, hopes, and aspirations have been forever shattered beyond ALL repair. Again, like Robin, he must now confront the fact that he too, (or as WE know, the OLD Guy of Gisborne) , the knight who would rebuild his life, gain property, wealth, high social standing, and have THE beauty and comfort of Marian Knighton as his wife,
was completely and utterly destroyed along with the woman he cherished.
Like the army officer who snapped and could no longer contain his fear and panic about what his life had become, ( and where he was going), Guy exploded and wound up ending all possibility of living the life he had once aspired too. He shares the same degree of self blame and guilt that Robin is experiencing about Marian,
(although albeit for VERY different reasons),
and like him, MUST find a way to go on and live with the truth of what he has become and what he has forever lost in THIS life.
When he at long last holds the keys to the life he thought would justify everything he sacrificed,
( his integrity to himself and his family honor, along with his humanity),
it is ONLY as he feels the heart break and agony of knowing the most precious jewel he COULD have possessed,
(becoming that good, kind, and loving individual he was originally taught to be),
and become the faithful husband of Marian, and father of her children :
was also one of things he sacrificed as well. And of course, THE pain (the thing "too hot" for him "to handle"), was in knowing for a certainty THAT prize would NEVER be his.
So now, as Sir Guy of Gisborne slowly self destructs, we will start to see Guy, only son of Sir Rodger Gisborne, and his wife, Ghislaine, be reborn.
It has been said that "when God closes a door, some how he opens a window" so we can see where it is we are truly meant to go. In Ep 8, Guy will try to make another detour, but it won't stick and he'll finally begin to abandon his old ways, (AND figure out a way to squeeze through that little window, LOL).
As for The Gang,
THEY now know that although they've managed to pull another one out, that PJ will literally stop at NOTHING, even bring England to the brink of civil war, to get what he wants. Everything has been something of a "dress rehearsal" until now. So, while celebrating their latest victory, they are bracing themselves for the worst that is to come. (DEFINITELY a thought that is "too hot to handle", but that cannot be ignored either.
Pokeygirl
Message was edited by: pokeygirl
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 7:10 AM
in response to: pokeygirl
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How true. Guy's old life, ambitions, etc., do disappear. At the end of this episode he's an outlaw like Robin, with no chance of regaining his past life and everything he once saw as so important. After this week's episode--his life-changing stay in prison, he's ready to listen in next week's show.
You know, with the good parents he started out with, Guy SHOULD have turned out to be a better person. So sad that he made such terrible choices along the way. He can never fully redeem himself, but he sure tries! I'm just so relieved that the writers took the story in this direction. If Guy had been killed by Robin in an act of revenge---doesn't bear thinking about! This storyline is so much better and more satisfying, IMO.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 1:55 PM
in response to: manxcatmom
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You know I think he is redeemable. When one recognizes his past transgressions he is open to redemption. Realistically and theologically he cannot redeem himself but he can be open to forgiving grace from the divine. I think he has opened the door for this. There is always hope. He will not be winning any noble peace prizes and his life was not ideal with his parents as you will see in the next few episodes but he has potential.
I think the fact that Guy was thrust into early responsibility might have had him searching for male approval and many of the choices he made were desperate and the best he could with the tools of his young mind alone.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 9, 2009 12:55 PM
in response to: manxcatmom
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Hi MM,
ALL that matters now is that Guy does what ever he MUST to fit through that little window.
Ramones,
I think you're right, we know Guy must (and will ) pay for what he has done; however, even after King David was forgiven by Jehovah for the murder of Uriah, justice HAD to be done, and so while his professional life and the Kingdon of Israel held together, it was his personal life (and that of his descendants) that fell apart.
Theologically, forgiveness is possible ONLY after repentance, (Guy is beginning down that painful road), but what matters now are the choices he makes from this point forward. He must make his confession, face what he had done, ask for no mercy, and accept the consequences without reservation.
It will be this path that will give him back his self respect, and finally give him a treasured jewel; it will earn him Robin's as well.
(Also, Marian (and we), will know at last that her blood was well spent.)
Pokeygirl
Message was edited by: pokeygirl
Message was edited by: pokeygirl
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 9, 2009 5:04 PM
in response to: pokeygirl
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Good point about ol' King David---he was forgiven, but he sure didn't escape the consequences of his actions, like our Guy. I think his repentance began on some level as soon as he realized what he did, but really took off in the right direction in this episode, thanks to a kind and sympathetic little soul named Meg.
In anticipation of the finale to come, I've been indulging in my mental re-write of the ending once again. Remember the fun we had some time back coming up with alternate endings? That is to say, happier endings, for all our characters.
I'm going to keep those HEAs in mind while I'm reaching for the tissues.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 11, 2009 7:29 PM
in response to: manxcatmom
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Hi MM,
The most compelling part of Guy's transformation, is that he doesn't just realize what he's done,
BUT,
he takes RESPONSIBILITY for it. He takes ownership of his part in Marian's "destruction" (as he puts it SO well!) Its at THAT point that (like King David), he can finally be granted some absolution.
As for Guy's two "kins men", at least I can say without reservation, that HEA, (emphasis on those words, Ever AFTER), will indeed apply to *THIS Robin and Marian. (I would also think that we could put Guy and Meg beside them. In fact, knowing Marian, she would have raised quite a heavenly clamor over that...... SHE wouldn't have had it any other way!)
*OUR Robin and Marian are another matter however. (When we get to our CFH, me, Rose of York, (and a few others, who, after great effort and searching) will be happy to share what we managed to figure out regarding where these writers were actually intending to take us before they were so rudely interrupted.)
(MM: I'll e-mail you on that one if you'd rather? Just let me know)
Pokeygirl
Message was edited by: pokeygirl
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 11, 2009 7:56 PM
in response to: pokeygirl
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I am curious about where you think the writers really wanted to take this story. Is there any way you can give me a basic idea through private messaging? A quick summary will do. I don't like to give out my e-mail address. Nothing personal at all, I just don't, except to a very small circle of close friends and family. Just wondering what you think they had in mind for our beloved characters!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 11, 2009 8:08 PM
in response to: manxcatmom
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Hi MM,
As soon as I can get the last of the "Sherwood" commentaries and notes together that came from the "Stan", and the "sandbox" , I'll be happy to oblige. So keep checkn' those pms. (shouldn't be more than too long from Thanksgiving, as we are fast running through the sands of our RH hourglass.)
Pokeygirl
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 11, 2009 8:23 PM
in response to: pokeygirl
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Thanks, Pokeygirl! Please, only if and/or when you have time. The gist of it will do, just enough to satisfy my curiosity!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 13, 2009 7:30 AM
in response to: pokeygirl
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I received "Sherwood" in the mail yesterday! Read page one last night before I fell asleep. It seems good so far...
Oh, I also finally got North & South and watched the second disk. I didn't care much for Part 3, but Part 4 was incredible!!! Out of curiosity, has anyone read the book? I had never heard of it before, but now I'm interested in reading it.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 13, 2009 7:42 AM
in response to: Jules1592
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Reading the book after watching the movie is fun, Jules, because you can see the characters in the scenes clearly while you're reading. I recommend it! The author's name is Elizabeth Gaskell. Some of the reading is pretty heavy, as it was written some 150 years ago, so the style is a bit different than today, but if you like Jane Austen novels, "Jane Eyre" or similar books, you'll probably enjoy "North and South". I finished reading it for the third time recently.
Wasn't the ending wonderful? That train station scene! (not quite the same in the book, but it's the way the book SHOULD have ended. I think Mrs. Gaskell would have been okay with it, don't you?)
Have fun with "Sherwood" as well!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 1, 2009 12:03 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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UGH.....
This episode frustrated me to no end....
Izzy has to be one of the worst female characters ever written in that show. I totally agree about the skizoid comment.... For goodness sake pick a storyline for her already.... if you have give her a real reason and thread to be there or the audience will never bond with her and just end up annoyed with her flibbertigibbet character. (I have always wanted to use that word somewhere and it seemed appropriate here).
The whole drowning thing??? come on really???? settle down with a nice little house in the country with kids and a Labrador I suppose.... really??? we are supposed to buy that????
I am so tired of the Batman and Robin type of executions...
Poor Guy... His sanity and loyalty have been stretched beyond belief. ( I know but I still love him and all his flaws...Always will.)
Well at least the fights were good. and I do love Toby Stephens and his flair for the drama. He is a great PJ.
and one last thing...am I the only one who is growing tired of Tuck and his speeches and over enunciation of every word in the over dramatized fashion???
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 1, 2009 1:56 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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I like Tuck.
Watfching last week's encore, I still have a LOT of trouble accepting Kate conveniently catching a flying sword by the handle ! ! ! ! Yeah, right ! ! !!
That thing went sailing, bouncing off the wals, & she still manages to cattch it by its handle ???? !! ! ! ! ! Get real ! ! ! ! !
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 1, 2009 2:37 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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I think the scream at the beginning of the episode, when PJ is telling Isabella his water plan is Much. I think they recycled that scream. It sounds eerily the same as when the Sheriff burned Much in episode 1.
Am I bonkers?
Too bad Guy didn't take a page from the Sheriff's book when Isabella told him to unshackle her so she could kill Robin. Much asked to be unshackled to dig the hole looking for the outlaws' stash. The Sheriff's response? "Tricky."
Ugh, fer Pete's sake Isabella! Who would know better where Clun is than someone who lives in the forest, and has lived in the area his entire life! Jeez, sometimes she is a big brat.
Watching this again, I'm not so sure that Guy realizes the Sheriff position will be hollow when he is handed the keys to Nottingham. I think at that moment he's more concerned about his outright lie to PJ. I believe it's only a few moments after that he realizes it's really just going to be more of the same he's been enduring for years. That serving under the prince is going to be just as much a compromise to whatever soul he has left.
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 1, 2009 1:27 PM
in response to: LNspook7
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I think Guy realizes that, as bad as it was to serve under an evil and abusive Sheriff, at least he wasn't certifiably bonkers as PJ is being portrayed, PJ is a loose cannon and changes his mind on a whim. At least Guy had a little better grasp of where he stood with the Sheriff, assuming he did the Sheriff's bidding.
Give me someone evil through and through over someone who lives in crazy town !!!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 1, 2009 11:04 AM
in response to: Maryrose
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Without a doubt, my favorite part of this episode is when the woman tells Robin that her baby's name is Robin...
"No, not for you. For the bird. One landed on his crib the day he was born."
The look on RH's face!!! LMAO!!!!
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Re: "Too Hot to Handle" Season 3 Ep 7
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 11:04 PM
in response to: Jules1592
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That was like my favorite part too! I loved how he got that cute cocky little grin, and then *wham* not you the bird. that was hilarious!
~Shell
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